GSM Without SIM Card

[Henry VIII]

I understand the SIM card is "mandatory" in GSM.

But my question: Are there any GSM voice or data modems that do not use
physical SIMs? In other words, that have the SIM contents downloaded into
chips?

Thanks.

[Jake233]

Post by Henry VIII
I understand the SIM card is "mandatory" in GSM.
But my question: Are there any GSM voice or data modems that do not use
physical SIMs? In other words, that have the SIM contents downloaded into
chips?
Thanks.

Not that i know of but is there a specific reason you don't want to
have a physical SIM card or are you just wondering?

[Henry VIII]

Yes, there's a reason. My company is developing a product that will
communicate with our home server using telematics. Our GPRS modem will be
embedded in the host product, and the product will be very difficult to open
once assembled. Also, the SIM card footprint is larger than we'd like.

If the contents of the SIM card could be downloaded to memory, we'd avoid
the real estate problem and make future support easier because we could use
an existing serial port to access the data rather than having to physically
get inside and change cards.

Seems this should not be difficult to achieve, but I haven't found examples
of it actually being done.

Post by Jake233

Post by Henry VIII
I understand the SIM card is "mandatory" in GSM.
But my question: Are there any GSM voice or data modems that do not use
physical SIMs? In other words, that have the SIM contents downloaded into
chips?
Thanks.

Not that i know of but is there a specific reason you don't want to
have a physical SIM card or are you just wondering?

[Chris Blunt]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:22:25 -0700, "Henry VIII"

Post by Henry VIII
Yes, there's a reason. My company is developing a product that will
communicate with our home server using telematics. Our GPRS modem will be
embedded in the host product, and the product will be very difficult to open
once assembled. Also, the SIM card footprint is larger than we'd like.
If the contents of the SIM card could be downloaded to memory, we'd avoid
the real estate problem and make future support easier because we could use
an existing serial port to access the data rather than having to physically
get inside and change cards.
Seems this should not be difficult to achieve, but I haven't found examples
of it actually being done.

I thought the encryption on SIM cards was supposed to be strong enough
to prevent them being copied. If it was that easy to copy a SIM card's
contents then that would open up a whole new set of problems for the
network operators with people's cards being copied and used
fraudulently. There would also be the technical problems arising from
potentially having multiple devices operating on a network with
identical SIM cards in them.

Chris

[Henry VIII]

Oops. I gave the wrong impression. No intent here to copy SIM cards.
We'll be purchasing accounts in bulk from a service provider and I'd like to
know that we can purchase the registrations in software form rather than
taking delivery of (and having to handle and install) physical SIMs. This
appears to be much more efficient for our application, both in terms of our,
and the provider's cost.

Post by Chris Blunt
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:22:25 -0700, "Henry VIII"

Post by Henry VIII
Yes, there's a reason. My company is developing a product that will
communicate with our home server using telematics. Our GPRS modem will be
embedded in the host product, and the product will be very difficult to open
once assembled. Also, the SIM card footprint is larger than we'd like.
If the contents of the SIM card could be downloaded to memory, we'd avoid
the real estate problem and make future support easier because we could use
an existing serial port to access the data rather than having to physically
get inside and change cards.
Seems this should not be difficult to achieve, but I haven't found examples
of it actually being done.

I thought the encryption on SIM cards was supposed to be strong enough
to prevent them being copied. If it was that easy to copy a SIM card's
contents then that would open up a whole new set of problems for the
network operators with people's cards being copied and used
fraudulently. There would also be the technical problems arising from
potentially having multiple devices operating on a network with
identical SIM cards in them.
Chris

[Jake233]

Post by Henry VIII
Oops. I gave the wrong impression. No intent here to copy SIM cards.
We'll be purchasing accounts in bulk from a service provider and I'd like to
know that we can purchase the registrations in software form rather than
taking delivery of (and having to handle and install) physical SIMs. This
appears to be much more efficient for our application, both in terms of our,
and the provider's cost.

Post by Chris Blunt
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:22:25 -0700, "Henry VIII"

Post by Henry VIII
Yes, there's a reason. My company is developing a product that will
communicate with our home server using telematics. Our GPRS modem will be
embedded in the host product, and the product will be very difficult to open
once assembled. Also, the SIM card footprint is larger than we'd like.
If the contents of the SIM card could be downloaded to memory, we'd avoid
the real estate problem and make future support easier because we could use
an existing serial port to access the data rather than having to physically
get inside and change cards.
Seems this should not be difficult to achieve, but I haven't found examples
of it actually being done.

I thought the encryption on SIM cards was supposed to be strong enough
to prevent them being copied. If it was that easy to copy a SIM card's
contents then that would open up a whole new set of problems for the
network operators with people's cards being copied and used
fraudulently. There would also be the technical problems arising from
potentially having multiple devices operating on a network with
identical SIM cards in them.
Chris

what company are you looking at phones for?

[Henry VIII]

I've been talking with KORE, a company that uses several carriers. We would
also consider dealing directly with a single carrier such as AT&T /
Cingular.

Post by Jake233

Post by Henry VIII
Oops. I gave the wrong impression. No intent here to copy SIM cards.
We'll be purchasing accounts in bulk from a service provider and I'd like to
know that we can purchase the registrations in software form rather than
taking delivery of (and having to handle and install) physical SIMs.
This
appears to be much more efficient for our application, both in terms of our,
and the provider's cost.

Post by Chris Blunt
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:22:25 -0700, "Henry VIII"

Post by Henry VIII
Yes, there's a reason. My company is developing a product that will
communicate with our home server using telematics. Our GPRS modem will be
embedded in the host product, and the product will be very difficult to open
once assembled. Also, the SIM card footprint is larger than we'd like.
If the contents of the SIM card could be downloaded to memory, we'd avoid
the real estate problem and make future support easier because we could use
an existing serial port to access the data rather than having to physically
get inside and change cards.
Seems this should not be difficult to achieve, but I haven't found examples
of it actually being done.

I thought the encryption on SIM cards was supposed to be strong enough
to prevent them being copied. If it was that easy to copy a SIM card's
contents then that would open up a whole new set of problems for the
network operators with people's cards being copied and used
fraudulently. There would also be the technical problems arising from
potentially having multiple devices operating on a network with
identical SIM cards in them.
Chris

what company are you looking at phones for?